Curse

Seanybabes · Nov 11, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Today was a bad day to be fair.

French day-off + Alands = non-ragers raging

Everyone must know how frustrating it is to carry your allies but this was something else. I didn't realise you could lose so many times!
I'm interested in what people think the best team setup is. Although this does differ from map to map, I reckon dual frontline + ranger is pretty strong on everything apart from AL/KC.

Bobby2 · Nov 11, 2009, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Personal ideal team

2x Warrior (Charge Axe + Dev/Magehunter for the best of both worlds)
1x Monk
1x XXXX

XXXX:
- Nuker (fortress map)
- any midliner who knows what he's doing (other maps)

Notes:
- Dervs and Sins are not manly enough to consider
- I feel iffy about Para's, and to a lesser extent, Rangers since they are susceptible to the same things as the Warriors. Rangers are great at splitting though, so the good ones always seem to pull their weight
- Strong preference for curse Necros since their skills synergize really well with physical damage (Barbs, Rend, Defile) and have access to strong off-Monk removal (FF), occasionally causing hilarity (MoP)
- 'wait for my Spirit' really pisses me off
- failing that, a caster brave enough to Draw or altruistic enough to slot Expel earns bonus points

Darth The Xx · Nov 11, 2009, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Simple we ran it yesterday.

4xSF eles on Asslands

I believe it was 1 E/Me with Snares (Kitah's i think)
1 E/N with ench removal
2 E/P Both with fallback 1 Never Surrender 1 Stand your ground.

Very effective and pure bridge domination <3 those small fighting spaces.

moriz · Nov 11, 2009, 07:09 PM // 19:09

i find it odd that many nukers do not take advantage of choke points. after all, that's where they REALLY shine. i once pulled off a three man defense of a bridge shrine from eight attackers, all because i pinged a target on the bridge just as that mob started setting up, and typed "nuke" in team chat. the nuker on the team responded, and they wiped in five seconds.

Seanybabes · Nov 11, 2009, 09:22 PM // 21:22

In response to mako, I'd pick a ranger over a nec (unless it's rezzy bear) because of the rupts and snares. And frontline doesn't have to be wars, sins and dervs have their advantages.
4 SF eles sounds fun but risqué if you come against a decent balanced or 4 avatar of melandru dervs wtf

I agree with moriz, holding against mob on the bridge turns games, as long you can actually hold them and not get rolled. Make use of the rez shrine's npcs.
Oh yeah on a side note, E/Ps should take inspirational speech for any wars on their team. Maintaining full adren works wonders!

Grumpy Bear · Nov 11, 2009, 10:43 PM // 22:43

We always try and run the same team set-up:

PR war
Crip shot ranger or PB mes
MB ele
Monk, obviously.

In my experience this is the best team for capping and for stomping teams.

Having said that finding decent pugs to fill those roles is hard

bungusmaximus · Nov 11, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Fort maps:
Fallback Nuker
Pblock mes+purge/ranger/curse/blindbitch+draw
Warrior, hammer preferably to keep people in AoE
Monk

Other maps
Pblock mes+purge/ranger/curse/blindbitch+draw
Warrior, hammer
Warrior, Evisc or cripslash
Monk

But we really fubb around with builds, there have been variations with a RoJ mes, Assassins (One of my guildies likes to play them, and I trust him not to suck), Water eles (awesome in AB for obvious reasons). Just no dervishes as everyone of us agrees they're trash ^^. Fury ritualists (sunandmoonsunandmoonsunandmoonLOLDPS). As long as it's balanced or semi-balanced we play it. We rarely play real spike builds, even sins are usually built for dps. 321 BOOM is rather boring, and we often switch professions to practice.

Been failing hard today on a powerblock mes, really amazing though what even a mediocre mes like me can accomplish in AB. Powerblocking meteor shower isnt exactly hard

jaximus · Nov 12, 2009, 12:24 AM // 00:24

meh, heres what i like

fort maps you have..
war-(ray or tele on hammer, i like axe better)
ranger/mesmer-cripshot or mels, mez rupts are nice for stopping damage from the base npcs while they get nuked
fire ele with fall back- we usually have mb, but pretty much any fire crap works as long as you have a targetted fire spell or two that isnt aoe
monk

on the open maps
war- (i strongly advice evis with enraging as your 8th instead of p rage)
whatever anyone has the urge to run or ab z quest for
moi water ele
monk

@bungus, sometimes i like dervs, i dual spec wind/scythe and go onslaught chilling victory thing toggle rolls all the time with /w for bulls on scythe! you hit about 95% of them cuz noone expects it

Mouark · Nov 12, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31

War / ranger / nec / monk always wins.

Replace nec for ele in Fort maps.

:>

Bobby2 · Nov 12, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanybabes

In response to mako

Ew, dervs

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunni cakes

PR war
Crip shot ranger or PB mes
MB ele
Monk, obviously.

In my experience this is the best team for capping and for stomping teams.

When it comes to balance, yes, this is likely the best you can get. But dual Wars tend to roll faster

bungusmaximus · Nov 12, 2009, 08:23 AM // 08:23

A guildie of mine actually came up with running charge on a fire ele, you can take a stance or shieldbash so your ele becomes a lot more resilient and less allergic to interrupts, I kinda liked the idea, and what goes up for command shields also works for tactics shields of course. Nuking shrines goes just as well without an elite and the warrior can go full strength and do more dps.

This doesnt limit your choice of a second midline too much and you can take, say, a mesmer with rend because you will be fast anyways. Enchant strips are pretty golden in AB, especially deep strips.

yesterday we did
Charge ele
Hammer warrior
Me/N (HA style but then pblock)
Monk

Very fun times...

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 12, 2009, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

A guildie of mine actually came up with running charge on a fire ele, you can take a stance or shieldbash so your ele becomes a lot more resilient and less allergic to interrupts, I kinda liked the idea, and what goes up for command shields also works for tactics shields of course. Nuking shrines goes just as well without an elite and the warrior can go full strength and do more dps.

Couldn't you just take incoming then? Lasts a little shorter but it heals and you can run continuously with fall back as well. And you get inspirational speech and brace yourself. Even burning shield, shield bash' ugly stepbrother.

Doesn't leave much else on your bar, just repeating all the /p options others have mentioned.

Tamarek · Nov 12, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunni cakes

We always try and run the same team set-up:

PR war
Crip shot ranger or PB mes
MB ele
Monk, obviously.

In my experience this is the best team for capping and for stomping teams.

Having said that finding decent pugs to fill those roles is hard

I agree with that setup, I find it's got everything you need for AB; dmg/snares/rupts/kds/pressure/aoe even the fall back on the ele which wastes less time getting to shrines.

Del · Nov 12, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Eviscerate war
melandru's shot ranger
mind blast ele
WoH monk

jaximus · Nov 12, 2009, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

A guildie of mine actually came up with running charge on a fire ele, you can take a stance or shieldbash so your ele becomes a lot more resilient and less allergic to interrupts, I kinda liked the idea, and what goes up for command shields also works for tactics shields of course.

well, kinda neat idea, but in practice i dont think this is nearly as good as it sounds. if your ele is dying through spec'd command shields with fall back and is eating interrupts i think its not the build that needs to be looked at. and then when you lose mind blast as your elite, you lose the 5e easily canceled hard to predict skill to waste rupts on and instead are carrying more heavy damage slower cast skills the need to be defended against rupts and much more costly to cancel.

i thought more about the ideal team on a not fort map and heres my thoughts(for fort replace the moi water with mb fire and take cripshot over burning)

war-evis with enraging (p rage is for losers

, yes mako and kira, thats aimed at you guys!)
burning arrow ranger with pin down-damage with rupts
moi water ele- (that snares frontline but then FOLLOWS that war with damage!! ask tele what its like to play with me on moi)
monk-b stance and shield bash

Seanybabes · Nov 12, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

war-evis with enraging (p rage is for losers

, yes mako and kira, thats aimed at you guys!)
burning arrow ranger with pin down-damage with rupts
moi water ele- (that snares frontline but then FOLLOWS that war with damage!! ask tele what its like to play with me on moi)
monk-b stance and shield bash

Evis used to be great with the extra extra damage but that was nerfed. Unless you're spiking I don't think it's that good an elite. IMS and IAS is not just IMS and IAS; it allows you to score so many more auto-crits from kiting foes, which is a constant 50-60dmg with axe. Furthermore, you have the ability to qstep block and attack at the same time. PR mows down foes trying to run away(esp. if you have 2!), try doing that with a shockaxe and you have to keep rush up and not frenzy.
Also, Mshot ranger isn't dead; coupled with pin down I think it's better than cripshot because of the fast activation and extra pressure.

Bobby2 · Nov 12, 2009, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

war-evis with enraging (p rage is for losers

, yes mako and kira, thats aimed at you guys!)

PRage = bar compression = Shield Bash and Chop spam. Which I like (sry Lux). Charge still wins out. But Eviscerate is indeed very rewarding to play.

Just don't ever suggest Body Blow over Executioner's Strike again. Exe is the jelly to Evis' peanut butter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

burning arrow ranger with pin down-damage with rupts
moi water ele- (that snares frontline but then FOLLOWS that war with damage!! ask tele what its like to play with me on moi)
monk-b stance and shield bash

I like this. Though I'd be tempted to run a Mes over the Ranger still for imba hex overload.

Editzzz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanybabes

Evis used to be great with the extra extra damage but that was nerfed. Unless you're spiking I don't think it's that good an elite. IMS and IAS is not just IMS and IAS; it allows you to score so many more auto-crits from kiting foes, which is a constant 50-60dmg with axe. Furthermore, you have the ability to qstep block and attack at the same time. PR mows down foes trying to run away(esp. if you have 2!), try doing that with a shockaxe and you have to keep rush up and not frenzy.

Charge + Evis? Evis-Exe is pretty insane damage. Can be at least as effective as PRage (albeit with considerable more effort)

jaximus · Nov 12, 2009, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanybabes

IMS and IAS is not just IMS and IAS; it allows you to score so many more auto-crits from kiting foes, which is a constant 50-60dmg with axe. Furthermore, you have the ability to qstep block and attack at the same time. PR mows down foes trying to run away(esp. if you have 2!), try doing that with a shockaxe and you have to keep rush up and not frenzy.

well sean, i dunno if ive played with you or not seeing as your from sRs and i play with those guys quite a bit.

heres my analysis:

p rage:
p rage is lazy mode for warriors. it allows bad warriors to appear decent. if you are using p rage to pound on kiting targets you arent playing warrior right. there is this neat skill called bulls strike and it allows you to make the target not kite you so you can blow him up. to play evis like you play p rage you said you need to keep rush up. this is semi true IF you dont use bulls correctly. rush gets you up in their face for bulls, dont spacebar bulls, run past them first, then bulls and unload. oh, and thats not even bringing shock into the discussion. p rage lets you play warrior in chase, which i feel is a waste. because most teams carry snares (cripshot, pindown, water snares) your target isnt going to be running enough to make p rage worth your elite. the stationary dps of evis is >>>>> than p rages. ive spent hundreds of hours perfecting my axe micro so when i play p rage, all i feel its doing is hurting my damage output. i q step in my sleep, ive been laughed at many times on vent for q stepping on my ranger, q stepping while wanding on a monk, etc. as for makos argument of p rage being bar compression, sorta kinda not really. the largest advantage of p rage isnt bar compression, but one of the 8 skills on your bar minimizing the human error inputs. in english, p rage minimizes micro and allows larger output with less input.

evis with enraging:
requires micro of stances but puts out bigger numbers faster. ive spent enough time working with my micro to feel very comfortable with the frenzy rush combo to maximize my damage output. this allows me to do with my inputs what p rage does for people on their bars. the difference is that evis has +damage on the deep wound and with enraging hits a much harder punch much more frequently. also with frenzy having a shorter cooldown and having 2 cancels, you can avoid lots of damage and with avoiding damage by canceling with enraging, you get adrenal boosts for more damage! if you are forced to cancel p rage, the recharge hurts a bit. @mako, enraging lets you pump d chops faster also

summation: p rage takes up your elite slot to do things you can do by practicing more. evis/enraging rewards good micro with enormous damage in rapid succession.

with all that being said. if your frontline isnt super comfy on warrior then p rage is better. if you are confident in your micro skills, evis is more rewarding.

@mako once again, b blow >>>> ex chop since you should have 14/13 for sents.

bungusmaximus · Nov 12, 2009, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

and then when you lose mind blast as your elite, you lose the 5e easily canceled hard to predict skill to waste rupts on and instead are carrying more heavy damage slower cast skills the need to be defended against rupts and much more costly to cancel.

Hmm that is good, you got a point there, ranger tries to dshot mblast, I cancel and pan fry ranger with rodgorts. Gotta try that.

Seanybabes · Nov 12, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

In reply to jaximus:
I do know of the skill bull's

Without it wars won't be the same. But it's 3s KD 10 recharge and no matter how good you are you can't land all of them, furthermore you can't shock too much esp. if you frenzy/rush a lot. Prots will inevitably come onto your target and PR allows you to switch that much faster. You can't body block well without both IAS/IMS. Remember when PR first got buffed? 33%IAS and IMS 4s recharge anet didn't realise how overpowered IAS/IMS was so they nerfed it and then nerfed it again. Lastly, you have a free slot to take shieldbash, which useful when you bash a dev hammer.
I agree with that shockaxe spikes harder and can build up adren spike quicker every 20s, and that it's less painful with frenzy/rush. PR isn't what it used to be but I disagree that it's a skill for lazy wars.